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Supporting vaccinations

December 20, 2013

Dr. Stephen C. Stripe, Minot There is a serious public health problem that is occurring globally and it is costing lives and health in North Dakota and here in Minot....

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(55)

nodogmadc

Jan-07-14 9:44 AM

Mark Crislip and the website is very dogmatic. He suggests only medical doctors are the educated professionals capable of helping people with health challenges/problems. Utter garbage.

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Docskeptical

Dec-27-13 8:23 AM

For the best response to a question from CAM person I have seen go to Dr. Mark Crislip at Science Based Medicine****. He has a new post today on Friday the 27 of December 2013.

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mitwocents

Dec-26-13 11:50 AM

Another counter to the people who have had chiropractic since birth and no vaccines for their kids and have "never" been sick. My daughter has never been to a chiropractor. She is almost 16 and I could count the times on one hand that she has been sick in her life. I may even have fingers left over. She had all vaccinations including flu shots. Some would say good hand washing, some would say good genes, but how does the chiropractor explain such a "freak of nature"?

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mitwocents

Dec-26-13 11:43 AM

It seems that whether or not you believe that vaccinations are "the devil", one thing is for sure......when you claim chiropractic care can cure disease, you have crossed the line. I read an article where a chiropractor claimed to cure autism with chiropractic treatments. That is absolutely the most insane thing I have ever heard. If that was possible, this debate would no longer exist. The statement about the "rib being out" and the adjustment fixing it.....I've had those pains you speak of, everyone does and if you take a quick, deep breath, voila! It's fixed. I'll give you that cracking a back or whatever can make it feel better, I've been to a chiropractor and love him. But he didn't do all the "magic' crap with clickers and other "tools" and I wouldn't see him for my sinus infection or to treat cancer. Seriously?

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beckyp

Dec-26-13 10:35 AM

My point was that cadavers are more fragile.

I will not argue that a bone can be moved through an adjustment. It can. I've had a rib out, sharp pain on breathing, one adjustment and you can feel the rib go back in and no pain. Not placebo.

Doc you state: "No if people are going to sell and encourage practices that injure, kill or hurt people and the public health, then it is our duty in the skeptical movement to call BS, when we see it."

Now doc please read: Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers (of deaths) may be much higher in 2014 between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death, the study says.

That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second.

I can no longer debate this issue with you.

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Docskeptical

Dec-25-13 8:15 PM

I find it amusing that you say my logic is wrong. Where did you learn your logic. I can count the logical fallacies that you and your allies made in these comments. I learned science and logic in school and in practice. In the skeptical movement we encourage science and logic and decry pseudoscience, myths, magical thinking etc. Critical thinking is key and I don't mean calling someone names. You ignore what you don't like and don't want to learn. And only go to what feels good, you agree with etc. that is called confirmation bias. To be a good critical thinker you have to follow the evidence (and not all evidence is equal, such as stories from people), even if it makes you uncomfortable.

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Docskeptical

Dec-25-13 5:14 PM

I am sorry, but your logic is wrong. Cadavers are usually more easily damaged than live bodies. You didn't seen my earlier post that studies have also been done asking various chiropractors where the subluxation is and they all pointed to different vertebra. A radiologist looks at the same spine xray and says it normal. No if people are going to sell and encourage practices that injure, kill or hurt people and the public health, then it is our duty in the skeptical movement to call BS, when we see it.

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beckyp

Dec-24-13 10:50 PM

Doc you state "Studies have been done on cadavers that show the amount of force it would take to move a vertebra is so much that it would literally break a back"

There have also been studies done on ALIVE people while given an adjustment under x-ray and the bone moves.

Can we at least agree doctor that an alive person and a dead person might be completely different?

Would you treat a dead person the same as an alive person?

I would say there is one distinct difference between an alive person and a dead person...life! Blood flow, breathe, nerve impulse. This entire time your logic seems completely off. You make false claims.

Our society has taught us that we don't need to be healthy, to thrive, to grow, but instead to just not be dead. Eat crap, be immobile, take meds, sugar, caffeine, more meds, drugs surgery, just stay "not dead".

But I have a great idea. You continue to live how you live and I will continue on my journey...Survival of the Fittest.

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muleskinner

Dec-23-13 11:07 PM

If you have cancer and hope chiropractic care is going to provide treatment to result in a cure, you are at the irrational stage with no hope.

You are not going to be able to cure leprosy with chiropractic treatment.

Chiropractic care is simple mechanics, not much else. A chiropractor is not going to practice medicine to treat diseases. It's not his job. If he thinks he can, he is then a quack at that stage, out of his league.

If Steve Jobs found hope in chiropractic care for cancer treatment, it was his choice. He also chose to buy a 176 million dollar yacht maybe to stave off the inevitable, but that wasn't going to do any good either.

All I know is that one simple movement of my spine by someone who knew what to do provided great relief for my suffering.

Blows that placebo business out of the water. I know what worked.

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Docskeptical

Dec-23-13 11:05 PM

On more thing about back pain. Most acute back pain goes away on its own in 6 to 8 weeks, no matter what you do, see a medical doctor, go Physical therapy, go to the chiropractor or have a shaman spin a chicken around your head and say some magic words. Better research in peer reviewed research, not biases and anecdotal only CAM sources, even if it goes against your beliefs, it is better to know the truth how reality works then making up stuff that can be dangerous. Enough said.

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Docskeptical

Dec-23-13 10:46 PM

Placebo effect only. We admit we make mistakes and we track them to improve care. CAM don't and don't admit mistakes, but their treatments are mostly placebo effect and they can be dangerous, case in point Steve Jobs.

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muleskinner

Dec-23-13 10:26 PM

I had a problem with my back because I had twisted it when I lifted a garage door to open it. It was weeks of misery because it would not fall back into place and a vertebrae probably remained occluded against a disc, no matter how slight the movement, it hurt all of the time. It would be constant pain. One simple adjustment moved my spine into alignment, the pain was gone in about 2 hours and I could finally function in a normal physical capacity. It was a relief.

Chiropractors can and do help physical pain due to the spine's misalignment. It does work.

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muleskinner

Dec-23-13 10:15 PM

Doctors never make mistakes like remove the wrong leg or operate on the wrong patient or leave instruments inside a person's body after surgery.

Doctor's always provide the most professional care there is available and chiropractors are quacks from the word go.

Ever heard of a second opinion because another doctor may have a different diagnosis and therefore an opposing medical opinion than the first?

Ever heard of that?

What do you do with your mistakes a doctor was once asked.

I bury them he said.

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Docskeptical

Dec-23-13 9:08 PM

Interesting discussion, but based not on reality. Measles can cause encephalitis's the vaccine can cause an encephalopathy. However the measles virus itself is 2000 times more likely than the vaccine to cause brain problems or kill you. Studies have been done on cadavers that show the amount of force it would take to move a vertebra is so much that it would literally break a back. Also studies have shown that various chiropractors when shown a back x-ray also point to different vertebra as having a subluxation, none the same. When the same x-ray is shown to a radiologist his diagnosis is normal spine. So if you don't know what your talking about why open your mouth and remove all the doubt.

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nodogmadc

Dec-23-13 8:34 PM

Minitndgal, so you understand\recognize\admit there is a risk receiving a vaccine. So if it can negatively affect the sick it also can do the same in healthy people. You also allude to what's called herd immunity which is a false belief. How do you explain breakouts of different diseases when all the people have been vaccinated in said outbreak group?

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beckyp

Dec-23-13 5:47 PM

Locamotive...Amen!!!

Mules...I would run...well maybe limp to get a tetanus shot if I stepped on a rusty nail:)

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locomotive

Dec-23-13 5:37 PM

muleskinner Dec-23-13 3:38 PM

Enjoyed your post, mules.

I say parents have the right to choose whether their children should receive vaccinations. There's tons of info to wade through in order to make an informed choice.

Now when one side states that the other side's info is not worth considering, that automatically deserves a demerit in my book.

Just let all the info come out, without snide condescension from anyone, and let parents decide.

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locomotive

Dec-23-13 3:48 PM

VERY interesting subject. Thanks to all of you for posting.

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muleskinner

Dec-23-13 3:38 PM

If you have ever had a twisted spine where a vertebrae is impacting your free movement that you need some kind of care and if all you need is to have your spine fall into place like a jigsaw puzzle piece, then there is no better person alive than a good chiropractor. An adjustment to correct spinal alignment will do wonders for your health. No quackery in there at all. A valid, scientific area of expertise.

If you have never had a tetanus immunization and you happen to step on a rusty nail that digs into your foot like it feels like you are being crucified, you would go to a health clinic and receive a tetanus shot as soon as you possibly can. You maybe might want to tough it out and take your chances, but it will be better to receive some modern medical care before you contract lockjaw and die.

If you want to be in medicine and prescribe medications, do it for the patient, not the pharmaceutical corporations.

It is a good idea to vaccinate to prevent disease and illness.

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beckyp

Dec-23-13 11:54 AM

haha I didn't curse but apparently my words got **** anyways the TV:)

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beckyp

Dec-23-13 11:53 AM

Landslide- I do agree with you those are huge factors as well:)

HOWEVER:) You could do a study on vaccinated vs. unvaccinated kids...but guess what? The vaccine companies DO NOT want to do this study...I have to question why. Well they say "The parents who don't vaccinate would not seek a medical diagnosis if one had autism" I'm sure they are talking about the amish community, but how about non-amish. The CDC did a study on "Who was not vaccinating" the result:

Unvaccinated children tended to be white, to have a mother who was married and had a college degree, to live in a household with an annual income exceeding $75,000 (this was almost to the T description of the people I knew who didn't vaccinate...interesting.

I doubt a mother of this nature would avoid a diagnoses.

Now, why doesn't the anti-vaccination community do the study to that I say, the Vaccine companies would discredit it in a heart beat...or sooner. It HAS to be the pro-vaccine that does the s

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beckyp

Dec-23-13 11:48 AM

Landslide- I don't think you could ever do a study on farm vs. city. I know people that grew up on a farm and sat in front of the*****tube more than city kids. I also live in the city and allow only a certain amount of time in front of the TV, we play, we eat very well, ect. It would be flawed. I lived in a very affluent neighborhood in MPLS. With neighbors who didn't own TVs, didn't vaccinate, ate all organic, wouldn't have an ibuprofen, cough/cold medicine, antibiotic in their house. They had the healthiest, brightest kids you've ever seen. They were the happiest most joyful adults I'd ever seen and they made a very good living. I'm not talking one neighbor I would say 25% (could have been more).

This is when you, as person began to ask questions, began to seek alternatives, you do not experience something like what I experienced and not research. I went to chiropractic school. I never was lectured on anti-vaccine by professors.

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landslide14

Dec-23-13 11:20 AM

My children are concerned with Vaccinations.. The rise in ADHD is it from vaccinations or from lack of exercise, being house bound, and unable to play outside??

I would like to see the stats of farm kids versus city kids when it comes to ADHD and health problems..

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beckyp

Dec-22-13 4:10 PM

I will add. I have never talked anyone out of vaccinating their kids. You get to decide as a parent.

Now if a parent can be mad at me because I chose not to give my kid a flu vaccine, he got the flu and gave it to someone else (this hasn't happened), can I get upset because you as a parent feed your kid fast food, constant treats, soda, ect. Thus making their body completely inflamed and a habor for sickness and disease. They get sick and get my kid sick...is that okay?

P.S. My kid went to a daycare, everyone had the flu...everyone had gotten the flu vaccine...expect one kid. The unvaccinated kid.

But that is not a researched peer reviewed study so lets discount that completely:)

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beckyp

Dec-22-13 3:50 PM

Dr. You state, "The government does not make the vaccines, companies due. It is not political because I have seen the effects of not immunizing."

You better look that one up on your own doc...I can't help you out there (cough...lobbying...cough cough...enticements) But I'm sure you never saw any of that in school or at your office...

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